On the final day of this year’s Australian Engineering Conference, a small group of engineers piled into a break-out room to attend the second forum with the big title Engineers Can Change the World.

Moderating the panel was Chair of the Board for Engineers Without Borders Australia, Gavin Blakey. From the start of the session, you could tell this was a passionate subject matter for Gavin who quizzed panellists on some of the ideas around how engineers can further influence government/industry and truly make a difference in the world.

Off the back of his attendance at this year’s Global Engineering Congress (GEC) in London, we chatted to a slightly jet-lagged Gavin about his own thoughts on how he thinks engineers can change the world, what a selfie can do to help engineers get a leadership role, and why women are leading the charge in volunteering.

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EA: Hi Gavin. Thanks for taking the time to speak to us.

Gavin: Thank you.

EA: I got this sense from your moderation of the Engineers Can Change the World panel at AEC I felt like you wanted to jump in there a lot more.

Gavin: [laughs] Yeah, I’m happy to chat.

EA: So, I think this is your chance to do that! What was your big take away from the conference?

Gavin: What I took away from that AEC is that there is a momentum, a desire for the engineering sector to contribute to making a significance difference in our communities. Community can be defined as your local community, can be defined as a profession, could be defined as your city, your state, your country, or the world. But I think what engineers do is make a difference in all those communities. It was an inspiration to be part of that AEC, and a reminder about the difference we can all make in our communities.

EA: Just quickly on AEC: we talked a lot about AI. Engineers have this different skillset, this different knowledge that isn't really being utilised in broader conversations around these big topics like AI. Is this part of the reason why engineers should step more into leadership roles?

Gavin: Absolutely. Yes, is the short answer, and when we look at even that session that I was moderating, the speakers had a theme, a thread running through that there is real opportunity for engineers to step up. I think most engineers, as a generalisation, are introverted. That's just a way of thinking, actually. We do a lot of internal processing, we're not necessarily out there and expressing our ideas.

I feel as though I'm a bit of a chameleon, that I can work as an introvert thinking but in other circumstances, for example speaking in front of groups, I can be more extraverted

EA: It's funny, because we're only five minutes in the interview and I thought we wouldn't get to introversion until a lot later, but it always seems to come up. I think every time we talk about leadership and engineering, there's this cloud over it. Introversion isn't a bad thing, but we always seem to drift to that part of the conversation. Do you think that's a good or bad thing?

Gavin: I don't think it's either. I think it's just the reality. Engineering generally attracts people who are analytical problem solvers, and often that's either seen, or is, more introverted behaviour where you're focusing in on a particular issue. I know from years of experience that that's a great skill. It's also not the only skill. If you think about a team, and the most effective team is people who have a whole range of skills, experience, knowledge, tools, that can come together and work together well.

I feel as though I'm a bit of a chameleon, that I can work as an introvert thinking, but in other circumstances, for example speaking in front of groups, I can be more extraverted. I've learned those skills through Toastmasters and then through experience I've been able to then apply those skills so that I can contribute to the conversation.

We're finding that some companies have said to us if they see on an applicant has volunteered or been in a leadership role with EWB, that they’re going to get an interview.

EA: Steven Langton during your session at AEC held up his phone and said, "engineers aren't good at this," and referred to taking selfies. Do you think that's true? Do you think you have to be good at being a little bit promotional, a little bit out there, to build on those leadership skills? Or do think he was trying to just be a little bit fallacious?

Gavin: My interpretation was he was saying that we as engineers need to be willing to promote ourselves a little bit more. Stephen Langton, Anne Hellstedt and Mark Birrell were all strongly encouraging engineers to step up because society's looking for what we have to offer. It's just a matter of stepping up and taking that opportunity.

EA: You mentioned that a couple years ago you took some time off with Engineers Without Borders Australia to go to Cambodia and Vietnam. But not everybody has that opportunity to do that. Do you think a lot of businesses and firms need to have a better culture of letting their engineers take on that volunteering work, or do you think it's already there?

Gavin: I think in some organisations it's there. Other organisations, it's still evolving. Organisations and companies are waking up to the fact that not only is it good for professional development of the individuals, but it's great for their organisation / company.

We're finding that some companies have said to us if they see on an applicant’s CV that they've volunteered or been in a leadership role with EWB, then they're going to get an interview, because the company knows that the applicant willingly put themselves out there to be able to make a difference, and that they gained skills, knowledge, and experience through that volunteering or leadership role and that's going to be really helpful in the workplace.

EA: On the flip side of that, do you see companies also looking into pro bono work?

Gavin: Definitely. For the same reasons, really. It makes a difference in the community. It also builds the skills of their staff. Lawyers have been doing pro bono work for years and we can lean from their lead. I'm just saying, "Hang on, as a profession, we can step up and step out and be able to make a difference through engineering pro bono."

It’s a two way street – the mentor can learn as much from the mentee as the mentee does from the mentor.

EA: I can imagine, because it's not so ingrained in engineering as it is in law. In engineering they probably have no idea what the first steps are with pro bono.

Gavin: Yes. That's right. Some companies are keen to do pro bono work, but don’t know where to start. We run training programs, for example in-house for engineering organisations, or can take them to communities in Australia or countries like Cambodia where part of the experience is being in a developing country and seeing things in context. It’s about being immersed in a community and seeing how things work. If you understand how the community's thinking or working, then you can bring that experience back into the workplace working with clients or working directly with communities.

EA: Now I know you'd probably be biased with this question, but would you say volunteering is a solid foundation for someone in engineering for getting into a leadership position, getting in those senior roles and maybe getting on a board one day?

Gavin: [laughs] I am biased, yep. I'll put that out front, because that’s been my journey. There is no doubt that the experience that can be gained by volunteering in a leadership role in a community based organisation can be directly applied in the workplace. So not only are you contributing your skills and experience to society, but your gaining professional development experience that you can apply back in your workplace. So it’s a win all round!

EA: Talking to some of the young graduates at AEC, one of the biggest things for them I think consistently is they want to network and have a mentor. They want to talk to people. Do you think that's what's missing as well?

Gavin: Yes, that’s consistent with what I’ve heard from young engineers too. People skills are so important to our success as engineers. Having the competence and confidence to engage with a range of people is a learned skill. We often think of networking as participating in networking events, but most of our time is actually spent building our network across workplace, our sector or our industry. Of course participating in Engineers Australia events is a fabulous way to extend your experience and broaden your network.

Mentoring is a powerful way to gain insights by both the mentee and the mentor. It can be a mutually beneficial experience. Just being willing to get ourselves out there and provide some advice as mentors, but doing it in a way which is very encouraging. Thinking about what's in it for them, how can I be helpful for them.

EA: The mentor almost needs a mentor.

Gavin: Definitely. By going through that relationship you can develop up skills and experience yourself as a mentor. My own experience in my workplace has been there are many people willing to volunteer as mentors and it’s a two way street – the mentor can learn as much from the mentee as the mentee does from the mentor.

EA: It's a two-way thing. It's not just passing down knowledge. It's more of a mutual thing.

Gavin: Absolutely. And indeed mentoring is a key to keeping more women in engineering. 

I would say that women engineers can see a clear alignment between the work they do in engineering and making a difference for their families and their communities.

Gavin: In EWB Australia more than a third of our membership is female. Two thirds of our leadership is female. That's really interesting for me, because I'm thinking, why is it three times the national average? The national average is 12 per cent. I ended up asking around and looking at the research we've done through support from the Origin Foundation. One of the insights from the research is that women want to see a close values alignment between themself as individual and the initiative or organisation.

I would also extend that to say that [women engineers] can see a clear alignment between the work they do in engineering and making a difference for their families and their communities. They're seeing the really practical application of engineering to create solutions for clients and society.

Whatever your passion is, just start being involved with that and take on leadership roles at work or in the community, whether it be as a treasurer or a vice president or a president or a marketing person.

EA: What’s the best piece of advice you can give to young engineers?

Gavin: What's something you'd really love to get involved with, and just do that. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the engineering space. It could be on your Toastmasters Club, or it could be on the local bush care group, or work in an organisation like Engineers Without Borders. Whatever your passion is, just start being involved with that and take on leadership roles at work or in the community, whether it be as a treasurer or a vice president or a president or a marketing person. Then apply those newly developed skills in your engineering career.

Engineers change the world. We have so many skills, deep knowledge, and opportunities. When we share that, we really make a difference for people. What we as engineers can do is to create the future. Just go out there and do it.